Showing posts with label Gorgias. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Gorgias. Show all posts

Monday, February 17, 2025

Brief Notes on Various Topics - 38

17 February 2025

Brief Notes on Various Topics – 38


1.  My experience of learning within the context of Platonism is that such learning has two phases.  One phase is full of insights, the understanding of meanings and implications that were previously elusive or difficult to access, and the making of connections between various Platonic presentations both within the work of a single author (such as Plato’s Dialogues) and across time among various authors in the Platonic tradition.  This phase is exciting and encourages someone experiencing this phase to continue with their Platonist study and practice.


The second phase is kind of ‘dry’.  I mean that there are times when the reading of Platonist works seems more like a task or duty and the practices, such as purification, asceses, and contemplation, do not seem to yield noticeable results.  This second phase is a kind of challenge.  It tests our commitments and stability.


I have found that after I went through these phases several times, experiencing the second phase was no longer an obstacle.  I simply waited patiently for this second phase to pass, which invariably it does.  


2.  “Socrates:  But among so many arguments this one alone survives refutation and remains steady: that doing what’s unjust is more to be guarded against than suffering it, and that it's not seeming to be good but being good that a man should take care of more than anything, both in his public and in his private life . . . “


(Plato, Gorgias, translated by Donald J. Zeyl, Plato: Complete Works, edited by John M. Cooper, Hackett Publishing Company, Indianapolis, 1997, page 869, 527b, ISBN: 97808722034950)


3.  I think that for some of the dialogues it is difficult for people to see their ascetic nature and teachings.  Some dialogues, like Phaedo, are explicitly ascetic and those teachings are difficult not to see.  But for others, like The Symposium, the ascetic nature of the dialogue is not as strongly placed or as obvious.  The Symposium has a lot of flirtatious remarks that are placed in the context of a drinking party.  The dialogue also has a lot of humor.  


The asceticism of The Symposium appears in two contexts.  First, when Alcibiades describes how he tried to seduce Socrates but failed because Socrates was not interested in an erotic relationship with Alcibiades.  This clearly presents us with a portrait of Socrates that has left behind sexual desires.  I think some people miss that because Socrates is not a monastic in the way that, for example, the monastic followers of the Buddha are.  I think we tend to think, or picture in our minds, an ascetic as part of a community of practitioners who are identifiable by their clothing, comportment, and other signals (like their haircut).  But Socrates is not living that kind of life; instead Socrates is wandering around Athens and interacting with numerous people from all stations of life and even going to drinking parties if the occasion arises.  The commitment of Socrates to a chaste life is, therefore, given to the reader through his interaction with those who would seduce him.


The second context for The Symposium as an ascetic teaching are the two scenes where Socrates withdraws from what is around him into a contemplative trance; these are found at the beginning and end of the dialogue.  I have written about these before so I’ll just mention them here.  This kind of withdrawal, this turning away, is a demonstration of the Ascetic Ideal and its method; that method being to turn away from sensory stimulation.


4.  When considering the life of Socrates I think it is helpful to view Socrates as someone who entered the ancient path later in life.  According to our sources (Plato and Xenophon) Socrates was married and had children, and Socrates also participated in warfare in defense of Athens.  Both of these would tend to depict Socrates as an ordinary householder rather than a spiritual practitioner.  


What I’m suggesting is that the life of Socrates can be viewed as having two periods; the first was as an Athenian citizen immersed in the life of the polis, including politics, family, and war.  The second was after Socrates became aware of, and became initiated in, ancient teaching(s).  This second period came after he went to the Oracle of Delphi, and after his own initiations in ancient mysteries, and after he met Diotima.  As Socrates himself reports, these experiences changed his life in significant ways; most importantly, he became a philosopher.


There are two dialogues that I think illustrate this development.  The first is Parmenides where an elderly Parmenides interacts, and critiques, a very young Socrates.  Here the young Socrates is interested in philosophy but has not yet matured.  The second dialogue is Phaedo where Socrates talks about his interaction with Anaxagoras’s teachings and how Socrates was at first very much attracted to them, but upon examination found them wanting.  In this passage we see a somewhat older Socrates still wanting to understand deep philosophical issues, but not yet exposed to the teachings that would guide Socrates in that task.  We do see this full maturity and philosophical insight in a dialogue like The Symposium and The Republic.  


I think it is easy for most people, including myself, to relate to this kind of biography which has a ‘before and after’ structure to it; meaning before he found the actual Way of Philosophy and after Socrates had found this way.  I think this is one of the reasons why Socrates as a kind of archetype has been so relatable down through the centuries; the story of Socrates is one that nearly all of us can relate to.


5.  Those readers who are particularly interested in Plotinus might want to know that a new collection of the scholar John Dillon has been published that contains 21 essays on various aspects of Plotinus’s writings and understanding.  The essays were published in various journals over a period of many years.  Dillon is famous as a scholar of Middle Platonism, but it is good to see his essays on Plotinus brought together in one volume.


The title is Perspectives on Plotinus: The collected Essays of John Dillon.  It is published by The Prometheus Trust in England; a group dedicated to the perspective of Thomas Taylor, but which has, in more recent years, widened its publishing to include books by Platonist scholars who are not necessarily connected to their organization.


I just got the book myself and have not had time to read it yet.  Looking at the titles of the essays cover a wide range of topics.  Some of the essays focus on unpacking specific Enneads, or even a passage in an Ennead.  Other essays discuss the relationship between Plotinus and other philosophers such as Philo.  Some essays discuss ethical issues, and so forth.


I am particularly interested in an essay Dillon wrote on the way Grace works in Plotinus’s writings.  The essay is titled “A Kind of Warmth”: Some Reflections on the Concept of ‘Grace’ in the Neoplatonic Tradition.  In the first year of this blog I wrote several posts about Grace in Platonism.  It is my view that Grace plays a significant, even crucial, role in Plotinian thought.  That’s not original with me; you can find Christian Platonists who argue for the importance of Grace in Plotinus but they naturally tend to interpret Grace in the manner of their Christian tradition.  Because of my many years of study in a Buddhist context, I tend to understand Grace in the works of Plotinus as closer to, though not identical with, the teachings of Pure Land Buddhism on the topic of Grace.  On the other hand, there are a number of contemporary Platonists who reject the idea of Grace as having any place in Platonism.  I tend to think that in this case they are likely influenced by contemporary secular materialism in coming to that conclusion.  It will be interesting to read what Dillon has to say on this topic.


I’m glad to see this collection made available and I look forward to reading what it has to offer.  For those interested it can be purchased from Kindred Star books in the U.S. which can be found at kindredstarbooks (dot) com.  For those in England you can go to prometheustrust (dot) co (dot) uk.



Monday, February 10, 2025

The Impractical Philosopher

10 February 2025


The Impractical Philosopher

“Callicles:  This is the truth of the matter, as you [Socrates] will acknowledge if you abandon philosophy and move on to more important things.  Philosophy is no doubt a delightful thing, Socrates, as long as one is exposed to it in moderation at the appropriate time of life [as a young man].  But if one spends more time with it than he should, it’s a man’s undoing.  For even if one is naturally well favored but engages in philosophy far beyond that appropriate time of life, he can’t help but turn out to be inexperienced in everything a man who’s to be admirable and good and well thought of is supposed to be experienced in.  Such people turn out to be inexperienced in the laws of their city or in the kind of speech one must use to deal with people on matters of business, whether in public or private, inexperienced also in human pleasures and appetites and, in short, inexperienced in the ways of human beings altogether.  So, when they venture into some private or political activity, they become a laughingstock, as I suppose men in politics do when they venture into your pursuits and your kind of speech.”

(Plato, Gorgias, translated by Donald J. Zeyl, Plato: Complete Works, edited by John M. Cooper, Hackett Publishing Company, Indianapolis, 1997, pages 828-829, 484c-e, ISBN: 9780872203495)

1.  This attack on Philosophy, and Socrates, is embedded in a discussion about if it is better to suffer an injustice or to commit an injustice, a view that is brought up in a number of dialogues.  

This discussion about injustice itself grows out of a discussion about the nature of ‘oratory’, which is the art that Gorgias teaches.  The structure of Gorgias is complex and at times it is difficult to keep in mind the various topics that have been raised.  But it is well worth reading, and rereading, Gorgias to get a sense of the intermingling, or interweaving, of the various topics that are raised.

2.  Callicles seems to be a practical man.  Because of this Callicles thinks that philosophy has some value, but we shouldn’t overdo it.  I suspect that Callicles is thinking that philosophy gives young men the tools they need to have to make a good argument, to detect logical fallacies that someone might use in their arguments, and in general to sharpen a young man’s intelligence.  In other words, Callicles is looking at philosophy as a set of tools that serve specific, worldly, purposes.  Callicles might feel the same way about learning how to draw; it’s good to be able to sketch something because it might make what you are talking about clearer to others; but if a young man spends too much time on drawing this will lead to practical matters not receiving the attention Callicles thinks they deserve.

3.  Callicles is an example of someone who thinks the material world is the only reality and for this reason all human activity should be judged from the perspective of the material world.  I’m not saying that Callicles would self-identify as a materialist; I think it is likely that Callicles participates in the civic religion of Athens.  But I am saying that the idea of the transcendental, and the idea that human beings should align themselves to the transcendental, including their behavior in daily life, is not something that Callicles would take seriously.

4.  Callicles lists the deficiencies a life in philosophy will lead to.  It’s worthwhile to go over them one by one:

4.1  Philosophers will be inexperienced in the laws of their city.  That’s interesting; there is an awful lot of political philosophy these days; think of Rawls, Nozick, and an earlier generation that includes Carl Schmidt, Herbert Marcuse, and Leo Strauss.  These are philosophers who are well regarded, if not always agreed with.  Does this mean that Callicles is wrong?  I don’t think so.  Rather I think this indicates how much the idea of philosophy has changed in modernity.

For Plato, and for Callicles as well, philosophy is a transcendental project and a way of life grounded in the ascetic ideal.  The ascetic ideal turns away, to the degree possible, from worldly affairs.  This is why Callicles can justifiably complain that someone who dedicates their life to philosophy will not know the laws of their city; because the life of a philosopher is focused on that which transcends such concerns.

This may seem unlikely to many modern readers who have the tendency of reading dialogues such as The Republic and Laws as political works instead of allegories offering guidance to the philosophical practitioner who is walking the way to the transcendental.  It takes a shift in one’s consciousness to read these works so that their ‘undermeaning’ shines through.

4.2  Philosophers will be inexperienced in the speech that is used in matters of business.  The focus of business is on buying and selling and generating a profit through those exchanges.  In this context it is helpful to note that Socrates did not charge money for his teachings and contrasted this with the Sophists who charged for their services (sometimes charging significant fees).  The speech of the philosopher is focused on the path to the transcendent; philosophical speech is concerned with purification and renunciation and with clarifying the nature of the timeless and transcendent.  This is a different focus, using a different vocabulary, and a different methodology; that methodology being dialectic.  Philosophical speech is about offering caring guidance on how to live a virtuous life which is foundational for the philosophical life.  In contrast, matters of business are focused on materially gaining an advantage over others.

4.3  Philosophers will be inexperienced in human pleasures and appetites.  Here I would say that Callicles is not speaking accurately.  Philosophers may be experienced in pleasures and appetites, but that experience doesn’t lead to a life focused on pleasures and appetites.  The biography of a philosopher can be one of discovering the hollowness of bodily pleasures and the diminishment that appetites bring to both body and soul.  This then leads to a turning away from pleasures and appetites and the discovery of that which transcends such ephemera.

It may be that some philosophers have no actual experience with human pleasures and appetites; that is because of their own fortunate karma.  I mean that a philosopher who has the good fortune of never having engaged in these pleasures and appetites is likely to have worked on putting them aside in previous lives, thereby having a foundation for ascetic practice already present in their consciousness or soul.

But whether a philosopher has learned of the great harms that accrue due to pleasures and appetites in this life, or in past lives, in the current life they live a life that is not based on the pursuit of them.  This is why philosophers in the Classical period lived lives that were observably different from that of most people, as Callicles observes.

4.4  Philosophers will be inexperienced in the way of human beings altogether.  This may be hyperbole on the part of Callicles, but I think he is making a valid point.  In a way the practitioner of philosophy is not a human being; what I mean by that is that the philosopher divests himself of many things that almost all human beings are concerned with and consider important.  Callicles finds this disquieting, or maybe disgusting.  

And there are examples of philosophers who, because of their inexperience in ordinary human affairs, find themselves in very dangerous circumstances; I am thinking of Boethius as a good example of this.  But the philosopher, once he has the experience of the Good, the Beautiful, and the One, knows that everything else is inconsequential by comparison.  For those who have not had this experience of the Presence of Eternity, that does not make sense.  For this reason there is a chasm between Socrates and Callicles that is almost impossible to bridge.



Monday, October 28, 2024

Platonism on Non-Harming: 4

 28 October 2024

Platonism on Non-Harming: 4


I switched from “Plato on Non-Harming” to “Platonism on Non-Harming” because this post refers to Oration 12 written by Maximus of Tyre who was a second century Platonist.  The title of Oration 12 is “Revenge.”  It refers directly, or paraphrases, Plato’s Dialogues Crito, which I have previously referred to, and The Apology.  


The Oration opens with a reference to a poem by Pindar, as well as to events in the Odyssey that I think most readers are not familiar with (I don’t recall them off hand.)  Maximus also takes time to assert his view that virtue is ‘inalienable’ which is a disputed position in the history of Platonism.  


At paragraph 4 the Oration examines the impact of intention in cases of wrongdoing, and starting with paragraph 5 it focuses on the issues surrounding non-retaliation and continues this discussion to the conclusion.  I will start my quotation with paragraph 4:


“4.  We might suggest therefore that wrongdoing is to be defined not by reference to the removal of anything from the victim, but by reference to the intentions of the perpetrator.  A bad man could then be wronged by another bad man, even if he does not possess the good; a good man could be wronged by a bad man even if the good he has is inalienable.  I accept this account that connects wrongdoing with the moral defect shown in the intention, rather than with the success of the actual attempt; the law certainly punishes not only the man who does the deed by also the man who intends to do it: the housebreaker who attempts a burglary, even if he is discovered; the intending traitor, even if he does not act.  This whole line of argument, taken together, will bring us to the required conclusion.  The good man neither commits nor suffers wrong: he does not commit wrong because he lacks the desire to; he does not suffer wrong because his virtue is inalienable.  The bad man, on the other hand, commits wrong but does not suffer it: he commits wrong because he is bad; <he does not suffer wrong because he is innocent> of good.  Moreover, if Virtue alone and nothing else is good, the bad man’s lack of Virtue means that he has nothing to be wronged in.  But if other things in addition to Virtue are also good – physical attributes and one’s external fortunes and surroundings – then in the absence of Virtue it is better for these things to be absent than for them to be present – with the result that not even thus would the bad man suffer wrong, by being deprived of any of these things he makes such ill use of.  Therefore if we define wrongdoing by reference to intention, the bad man commits wrong but does not suffer it * . . . . *


“5.  * . . . . * the bad man wishes to commit wrong, he is in fact not able to.  His desire sets him either against a man like himself or against his better.  But what is his better to do?  Is he to inflict a wrong on the bad man in return?  Yet the bad man has nothing to be wronged in, since it is precisely the absence of the good that makes him bad.  In that case the sensible man will refrain from committing a reciprocal wrong against the bad man both in deed (the other has nothing to be wronged in), and in intention (being good, he has no more desire to do wrong than a pipe-player does to play out of tune.)  And in general, if doing wrong is bad, then so too is doing wrong in return.  The man who does wrong incurs no extra charge of wickedness in virtue of having acted first; instead, the man who returns the wrong puts himself on the same level of baseness by hitting back.  If the man who does wrong acts badly, then the man who returns the wrong acts no less badly, even if he is taking revenge for a prior offence.  Just as someone who returns a favour to his beneficiary acts no less well for the fact that he was benefited first, so the person who ensures a similar reciprocity in the sphere of harmful action acts no less badly for the fact that he was harmed first.


“6.  What limits will there then be to the harm done?  If the victims of wrongdoing take their revenge, the harm will for ever be transferred from one to the other and perpetuate itself, and one act of wrongdoing will follow another.  The same justification by which you allow the victim to take his revenge is equally effective in allowing the right of retaliation to pass back from him to the original offender; the justification is open to both of them equally.  For God’s sake, look at what you have brought about!  Where will it come to rest?  Don’t you realize that this is an inexhaustible source of wickedness that you are opening up, that you are laying down a law that will lead the whole earth into harm?  It was just this principle that brought men the great misfortunes of days gone by, armed expeditions of foreigners and Greeks crossing to attack each other, robbing and warring and plundering, and making the preceding wrong their excuse for each new one.  The Phoenicians kidnap a royal princess from Argos; the Greeks kidnap a foreign girl from Colchis; then the Phrygians strike again, taking a Spartan woman from the Peloponnese.  It is obvious how ill succeeds ill, how pretexts for war arise, how wrongs multiply.  This same process brought Greece into destructive conflict with herself too – self-styled victims of wrongs attacking their neighbours, in inexhaustible rage and undying anger and lust for revenge and moral ignorance.


“7.  But if the victims of wrong could only understand that their own wrongdoing is the greatest of ills for the perpetrators themselves – worse than war and the razing of their fortifications and the ravaging of their territory and the imposition of tyranny - then Greece would not have been overwhelmed with such crushing misfortunes.  The Athenians are laying siege to Potidaea.  Leave them be, Spartan; they will repent of it soon enough!  Don’t imitate them in their evil-doing, don’t lay yourself open to the same reproach!  If you seize the pretext and advance against Plataea, the island of Melos, your neighbour, is done for; the island of Aegina, your friend, is done for; the city Scione, your ally, is done for.  By capturing one city you will only bring about the sack of many.  Just as, when people risk their lives at sea on business, they pay exorbitant interest on the money they have borrowed, so when people take revenge in anger they pay an exorbitant interest on the disasters they inflict.  And to the Athenian I say: ‘You have captured Sphacteria; give Sparta back her men!  See sense while your fortunes are good!  If you do not you will have the men, but you won’t have your triremes.’  Lysander may score successes in the Hellespont and Sparta may wax mighty.  But keep away from Thebes!  If you do not, you will have a catastrophe at Leuctra and a disaster at Mantinea to weep over.


“8. What a murky and misguided style of Justice!  It was for this reason that Socrates refused to grown angry with Aristophanes, or resent Meletus, or take revenge on Lycon, but instead cried out, ‘Anytus and Meletus can kill me but they cannot harm me; it is not permitted for a good man to be harmed by a villain.’  This is the true voice of Justice; if all spoke in it there would be no tragedies, no dramas on the stage, none of those many varieties of disaster.  Just as in the case of bodily diseases it is the creeping varieties that are the recalcitrant ones, demanding a cure capable of halting their advance in its tracks and so saving the rest of the body; so when a first act of injustice afflicts a house or a city, the canker must be stopped if the remainder is to be saved.  This is what destroyed the Pelopidae, this is what annihilated the Heracleidae and the house of Cadmus; this is what brought down Persiand, and Macedonians, and Greeks.  What an unremitting disease it is, afflicting the earth in cycle after cycle down the ages.


“9.  I would make so bold as to say that if it is possible for one kind of wrongdoing to surpass another, then the person who takes revenge is a worse wrongdoer than the original offender.  The latter commits his wrong through ignorance and has his punishment in the censure that follows; but the retaliator, by taking an equal share of guilt, actually frees him from his liability to censure.  Just as a man who becomes entangled with someone covered in soot cannot avoid staining his own body too, so anyone who sees fit to wrestle and take a fall with an unjust man cannot avoid sharing in his wickedness and becoming defiled by the same soot.  When two athletes with the same training and the same ambition compete together, I am entirely happy, since I can see that their natural endowments are comparable, their exercises similar, and the desire for victory equivalent in both cases.  But if a good man falls in with a villain, when the two don’t come from the same gymnasium, and haven’t been trained by the same trainer, or learned the same arts, or been taught the same throws, and don’t long for the same wreath and the same victory-proclamation, then their combat moves me to pity; it is an unequal contest.  It is inevitable that the bad man will win when he is competing in a stadium where the spectators are criminals and the organizers rogues.  In such a situation the good man is a layman and an ignoramus, innocent of suspicion and knavery and all the other tricks of the trade with which villainy fortifies and reinforces itself.  The man who has no endowment for it in natural aptitude, in acquired skill, or in habit merely makes himself ridiculous by trying to return wrong for wrong.


“10.  But, someone may say, it is because of this that the just man is slandered and brought to court and prosecuted and has his wealth confiscated and is thrown into prison and driven into exile and stripped of his citizenship and executed.  What then if children, making their own laws for themselves and convening their own court, were to arraign a grown man under their legislation, and then, if he was found guilty, were to vote that he should lose his rights in the commonwealth of children and were to   confiscate his childish effects, his knuckle-bones, and his toys: what is it reasonable to suppose a man would do <when condemned> by such a court?  <Would he not laugh them to scorn,> votes, condemnations, and all?  So Socrates laughed the Athenians to scorn, like children their votes and ordering the execution of a man who was in any case condemned to mortality.  So too any good and just man will laugh with free and honest laughter as he sees wrongdoers eagerly attacking him, convinced that they are achieving something noteworthy but in reality achieving nothing.  As they strip him of his rights he will cry the cry of Achilles:


‘I know that I am honoured in Zeus’ ordinance.’


“When they confiscate his wealth he will let it go as if it were his toys and knuckle-bones, and he will die as if from fever or the stone, with no resentment towards his murderers.”


(Maximus of Tyre, The Philosophical Orations, translated by M. B. Trapp, Clarendon Press, Oxford University, 1997, pages 110-115, ISBN: 0198149891)


1.  Maximus lived in the second century CE and Plato died in 348 BCE so there is a gap of many centuries between the two.  This means that the topic of non-harming, and particularly non-retaliation, was persistently discussed over a long period of time.  In some of the quotes from Plato, Socrates indicates that this teaching existed prior to his own teaching, meaning that it was a teaching Socrates learned from his predecessors.


2.  Paragraph 4 begins with a discussion of intention which adds a significant element to the quotes I have posted thus far.  Maximus considers harm to be dependent upon the intention of the person doing the harm.  This shifts the focus away from the act itself to the mental, or psychological state, of the one doing the harm.


Years ago when I was studying ancient Jain Sutras, there was a section in one of the Sutras (I don’t remember which one at the moment; it might have been the Akaranga Sutra) where a group of Jain Sages mock Buddhists for thinking that intention determines karma.  For Jains, karma and its consequences are the result of the actions done by the doer; the act itself determines the karmic consequences and psychological states, such as intention, are not considered.  The example the Jains use is that if a Buddhist picks up a gourd, not knowing there is a baby lying asleep in it, and tosses the gourd into the fire, then it follows from the Buddhist analysis of intention that the person who threw the gourd into the fire did nothing wrong; Jains find this completely unacceptable and for that reason mock Buddhist analysis.


Maximus shares the Buddhist interpretation, meaning that Maximus thinks that intention is determinative as to whether harm has happened.


3.  “The good man neither commits nor suffers wrong: he does not commit wrong because he lacks the desire to; he does not suffer wrong because his virtue is inalienable.”


This is a good summation.  The good man is, by definition, one who lacks the desire to harm, or do wrong to, others.  The good man does not suffer wrong because of the cultivation of virtue.  The cultivation of virtue leads to a sense of equanimity and acceptance.  The practice of contemplation also provides the practitioner with a sense of spaciousness in the midst of the constant shifts and changes in this world.  The harm directed at the good man is perceived by the good man as no different than a storm on a day which he thought would be mild.  “It is what it is” is a popular saying today that I think sums up this kind of feeling.


As an aside, the opening sections of The Consolation of Philosophy deal forcefully with the erratic nature of fortune and that the virtuous man is also subject to these ups and downs.


3.1  At times Maximus offers us only two possibilities; either someone is a good man or he is a bad man.  But most of us are somewhere between these two; that is to say we are a mixture of good and bad tendencies.  I don’t think this damages the analysis of Maximus, but the analysis might have been more ‘realistic’ if it had explicitly included these kinds of mixed-tendency types.


4.  It’s not clear to me why Maximus thinks that the bad man does not suffer from wrongdoing, or harm, directed at him.  The good man does not suffer from harm directed at him because he has cultivated virtue.  But the bad man has not cultivated virtue: doesn’t that imply that the bad man suffers, or feels, the harm done to him?  


Another way of looking at this is that the good man who suffers harm will not use that as a justification for doing harm to others; but the bad man will do exactly that.


Perhaps I am missing something from the argument Maximus presents.  In addition the text is corrupt indicated by the ellipses in brackets; it’s possible that something crucial is simply absent from the texts we have at this time.


5.  “And in general, if doing wrong is bad, then so too is doing wrong in return.”  This is completely in keeping with the teachings Socrates offers to Crito.


6.  “The same justification by which you allow the victim to take his revenge is equally effective in allowing the right of retaliation to pass back from him to the original offender; the justification is open to both of them equally. . . Don’t you realize this is an inexhaustible source of wickedness . . . “


This is the samsaric nature of the world in which we live.  This is why there is no end to the cycles of retaliation.  This is why the material realm is a sea of sorrow.  Only by cutting through the becoming and beginning of all things can this be brought to an end.


7.  “. . . the person who takes revenge is a worse wrongdoer than the original offender.”  The one who takes revenge is worse because he is setting up the conditions for the generation of endless back and forth retaliation.


8.  In paragraph 10 Maximus, using a section of Gorgias as his starting point (521e), compares being wronged to a good man being dragged into a court set up by children who then find the good man guilty.  The good man is punished by the children, but simply laughs at the situation rather than falling into despair.


“When they confiscate his [the good man’s] wealth he will let it go as if it were his toys and knuckle-bones, and he will die as if from fever or the stone, with no resentment towards his murderers.”


This is a result of cultivating apatheia.  It is also likely based on knowledge of one’s own past lives; I mean that when negative things happen to a good man it can be seen as the karmic result of negative things he has done in the past coming to fruition.  But the good man does not have to continue the karmic cycle.  The good man can break the cycle and by doing so come closer to that which transcends becoming and begoning, the Good, the One, and the Beautiful.


9.  The passage from Gorgias that Maximus relies on is as follows:


“Socrates: ‘. . . I’ll be judged the way a doctor would be judged by a jury of children if a pastry chef were to bring accusations against him.  Think about what a man like that, taken captive among these people, could say, “Children, this man has worked many great evils on you, yes, on you.  He destroys the youngest among you by cutting and burning them, and by slimming them down and choking and forces hunger and thirst on them.  He doesn’t feast you on a great variety of sweets the way I do!”  What do you think a doctor, caught in such an evil predicament, could say?  Or if he should tell them the truth and say, “Yes, children, I was doing all those things in the interest of health,” how big an uproar do you think such “judges” would make?  Wouldn’t it be a loud one?’”


(Plato, Gorgias, translated by Donald J. Zeyl, Plato: Complete Works, edited by John M. Cooper, Hackett Publishing Company, Indianapolis, 1997, page 864, 521e-522a, ISBN: 9780872203495)


Brief Notes on Various Topics - 102

27 July 2025 Brief Notes on Various Topics – 102 1.   The Tradition of Orpheus The Orphic tradition is mentioned a few times in Plato’...